NEC ND-3500A or Pioneer DVR-A08

Flash · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:40 pm

dvd-x-boy wrote:

Flash, with what 12x media do you talk about?
If you mean 8x@12x then that isn't the same, anyway, i beg to differ. I have consitently found the NEC faster @12x burning to 8x Verb -R.
I do agree with the speeds on the 8x burns themselves, my FUJI03 tests where identical to yours.
Maybe you should look at my DL tests while you are at it.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Forum/tm.asp?m=75324

I did make a mistake with that post and I deleted it just as you were posting this query I stand corrected
Its been a long weekend. :oops:

dvd-x-boy · **Joined:** Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:35 am **Posts:** 97

Been a long weekend here too, Maybe NEC should have made it clear the Drive only does P-CAV at 16x write speeds, some guy has VERB +R 16x for testing, but i don't know who he knows to have got them, they are not even mentioned as coming soon on any of the VERB web sites.

Cantankerous · **Joined:** Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:25 pm **Posts:** 352

chef.... I realize the CDR overburning but was referring to DVD+R overburning... does it support that like the 107 did? I suppose I should have been more clear with my question.

chef · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:49 am

Same info from the Review on cdrinfo.com.

Quote:

- DVD Overburning Tests

Using Nero CD-DVD Speed, we tested if the drive can overburn using DVD+R and DVD-R media. Unfortunately, the drive does not support overburning, giving the following error with all inserted media.

Cantankerous · **Joined:** Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:25 pm **Posts:** 352

yea I Read that too which led me to wonder why the 108 cant overburn DVD's when the 107 could.

Oh well.

chef · **Posted:** Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:03 pm

For my 108 & Nero 6.3.1.20 Simulation of +R Overburn is currently disabled.
I could try to activate it by disabling Buffer-Underrun-Prevention...
<<<edit>>> Will not work for me anyway. :sad:

Getting the exact same messages that were posted in the review on cdrinfo.com.

Anyway, an extra of approx. 30mb compared with a really damaged or wrecked drive is a bit pointless, IMHO.

Cantankerous · **Joined:** Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:25 pm **Posts:** 352

I do agree. With this drive being a DL layer overburning won't be necessary as soon as DL media is available. Thanks for looking into it however.

From reading flashes battle of the burners I am getting the impression the pioneer is superior to the NEC minus the fact that the NEC ban burn CD's at a faster rate and read media a little quicker. Anyone else getting this same opinion? Is it worth upgrading from my 107 to the 108?

chef · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:20 am

Cantankerous wrote:

From reading flashes battle of the burners I am getting the impression the pioneer is superior to the NEC minus the fact that the NEC ban burn CD's at a faster rate and read media a little quicker.

I have the same opinion.
But what matters for me is the writing quality and according to Flash's tests the Pioneer drive has won in this category!!

Herrie · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2003 1:47 pm **Posts:** 2315

Cantankerous wrote:

I do agree. With this drive being a DL layer overburning won't be necessary as soon as DL media is available. Thanks for looking into it however.

From reading flashes battle of the burners I am getting the impression the pioneer is superior to the NEC minus the fact that the NEC ban burn CD's at a faster rate and read media a little quicker. Anyone else getting this same opinion? Is it worth upgrading from my 107 to the 108?

Where's this battle? This would kinda surprise me since NEC's burning quality has always been quite superior to Pioneer's one recently!

chef · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:53 am

Herrie wrote:

This would kinda surprise me since NEC's burning quality has always been quite superior to Pioneer's one recently!

Herrie, without your patched firmwares & your endless engagement the NEC drives wouldn't be that good in writing quality. :wink:

I personally think the NEC support has improved but it still can be improved though.

>NIL: · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:23 am

Herrie wrote:

Where's this battle? This would kinda surprise me since NEC's burning quality has always been quite superior to Pioneer's one recently!

Herrie,
The preliminary comparative results are here.

I think since NEC and Pioneer are the prime competitors in the DVD burner battle, it makes sense to have a comparison between NEC & Pioneer equivalent models when they come out. (NB: I am NOT saying that other manufacturers are worthless. It only looks to me like, in volume sales, NEC is probably 1st and Pioneer second. But if anybody has actual figures, it'd be interesting to know which manufacturers occupy the top spot)

Bleeder · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2004 2:07 pm **Posts:** 22

OK in Slovenia I can get a NEC 3500 for about 100$
Very cheap.

But isn't tis drive supposed to be CAV?
And does not that mean, that there is supposed to be no gear switching but constant speed growth instead?

Because inone of those graphs it zays Z-CAV and it changes gears. Isn't that annoying?

Can anyone explain to me which is better? CAV, Z-CAV,.. why, what does it mean for the average recording speed,..

Because those gear changes always messed up my cheapo DVD media since NEC 2500 would not read them back after the point where ggears changed for instance-around 900 Mbs while a Toshiba DVD ROM would.

Cause these gear changes affect writing quality and I am concerned that the same [*Profanity*] will happen again.

XDi2600 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:33 am **Posts:** 7

Bleeder wrote:

But isn't tis drive supposed to be CAV?
And does not that mean, that there is supposed to be no gear switching but constant speed growth instead?

The NEC ND-3500AG does write CAV @ 16x writing only I believe I am not sure of the other speeds, I know for a fact that it uses Z-CAV when writing @ 12x. Here is a CDSpeed image of a test DVD+R using a rebadged NEC ND-3500AG (TDK DVDRW1616N).

:arrow:

Burning at 16x with Verbatim 8x DVD+R

:arrow:

Time: 6 mins 14s

Kprobe scan

ThanX [Dave27] for screenshots.
Original Topic: http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthre ... forumid=73

The NEC drive does CAV but notice the spikes due to WOPC wich calibrates the drive's lens constantly, a plus aside from just OPC. I am pretty impressed mostly because it burns 16x a lot quicker than the Pioneer DVR-A08 and the quality does not seem to be sacrificed, noting that it is an 8x DVD+R being burnt @ 16x.

:twisted:

XDi2600 Out...

Toge · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:07 pm

ahem.

Pioneer-NEC_04.htm

Pioneer baby!

>NIL: · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:59 pm

Toge

I'm usually considered as a Pioneer boy, but for the sake of being objective, I'd say that the test you linked to would probably have more meaning if Flash had found a media that both drive would have burned at 8x.

One drive burned the disc faster, but the quality was worse
The other drive burned the disc much slower, and the quality was better.

I don't think this tells much.
Much more interesting is when you have a media that takes about the same time to burn in both drives.
Then the PI/PO/Jitter graphs become very revealing...

Flash · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:14 pm

>NIL: wrote:

I'm usually considered as a Pioneer boy, but for the sake of being objective, I'd say that the test you linked to would probably have more meaning if Flash had found a media that both drive would have burned at 8x.

Pardon!
Did you not see my FIRST TEST?

>NIL: · **Posted:** Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:24 pm

OOOPS!!!

I stand corrected.
I think Toge's link would have been better to this page...

dvd-x-boy · **Joined:** Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:35 am **Posts:** 97

Regardless of what i have read in other peoples tests, i still can not get my NEC 3500 to bit set DL disks to DVD-ROM, the Pioneer does them automatically, if anyone has suceeded in doing so with the NEC could they please send me their firmware.
Thanks.

chres · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:22 am

@Flash

You're surely busy like hell with doing all these tests on those two new drives. I really appreciate your work! But now, as you might have guessed, I have a tiny little suggestion. :wink:

Would it be possible to do some high quality +R media test with e.g. RICOHJPNR02, YUDENT002 or Verbatim MCC003 at 8x@12x (Don't know if the current fw allows this. If not, a comparison at 8x only would also be nice though and we'll wait until herrie did his work :wink:

)

I consider buying one of these, but most tests to find are made with DVD-R media and I'm really curious about how they compare with +Rs (especially burn-quality wise).

Thanks
chres

Flash · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:27 am

chres wrote:

@Flash
Would it be possible to do some high quality +R media test with e.g. RICOHJPNR02, YUDENT002 or Verbatim MCC003 at 8x@12x (Don't know if the current fw allows this. If not, a comparison at 8x only would also be nice though and we'll wait until herrie did his work :wink:

)

No Problem M8 just send me the media you want testing and I will do a full test on it
PM me for my address

Wesociety · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:37 pm

@XDi2600, I think it is important to link to your sources.
The images were originally posted here: http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthre ... forumid=73

Wesociety · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:09 pm

@FLASH, I am very confused by your first comparison page.
The media title reads "DATAWRITE FUJIFILM03 8x speed media"
but the MID code block dump reads RITEKG05

Additionally, in the NU PI/PIF test, the MID code is displayed as FUJIFILM03.

What media are you actually testing here???

Flash · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:10 pm

Wesociety wrote:

@FLASH, I am very confused by your first comparison page.
The media title reads "DATAWRITE FUJIFILM03 8x speed media"
but the MID code block dump reads RITEKG05

Additionally, in the NU PI/PIF test, the MID code is displayed as FUJIFILM03.

What media are you actually testing here???

"DATAWRITE FUJIFILM03 8x speed media" as per the title and the DVDInfo display

:oops:

I have just sacked my editor :evil:

Wesociety · **Posted:** Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:22 pm

Flash wrote:

I have just sacked my editor :evil:

hahaha! and who might that editor be?
YOU?! lol
Thanks again for the tests. :wink:

XDi2600 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:33 am **Posts:** 7

@Wesociety

Thank you for pointing that out, just edited the post

.

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NEC ND-3500A or Pioneer DVR-A08

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